Recently, a change was made so fighters lay flat on the ground after they're injured, so the player can follow up with an energy attack. But I think it gets very excessive.

I was doing a fight between Goku and Frieza, and hit Frieza with a fully-powered Dragon Fist dash attack. This stunned Frieza and left him laying on the ground for, and I counted, over 10 whole seconds, before he could move at all. It makes the flow of the fights feel much slower and less dynamic, and takes too much control away from the opponent, in my opinion. I think that following a combo up with an energy beam shouldn't be so simple that it can be done every time.

This is just my opinion. But I think after being stunned for a moment, the enemy should be able to move again, like it used to be. That way, following up a combo with an energy blast would require good positioning to intercept their dodging, fast reaction time to begin charging up a beam as soon as possible, good forethought to charge up usable energy before doing a combo, and would be harder or easier depending on if the enemy makes a smart move or not.

It used to be much more skill based to land a follow-up attack, now it's way too easy.

Edit by Txori: I moved your post where we are discussing about tweaking all this. I'll work on that tomorrow 😉

Oui, j'ai testé. Et j'ai eu le temps de me faire salement amocher. :')

New version with new tweaks:

• I modified how the teleportation coordinates and movements are calculated. Now, the last punch should always hit.
• I also reverted the accumulation of wounds, so a downed fighter doesn’t stay on the ground for too long.

Is that better?

the first and last one are pretty much free

You're right, but let’s keep it simple for now so we can debug properly. I'm already pretty bad at landing a full three-hit combo just to test 😅

The new time a character lasts in the dead state seems better, keeps the game fast paced. ⚡️

While I was testing I noticed three things:

CPU instantly recovers almost 100% of the times the last Dash Attack is near the ground.

CPU instantly recovers if I hit them while they are flying, taking away a lot of combo potential.

The time you stay in the dead state after losing a Melee Clash should be lower than when you get knocked by a Dash combo.

• I have reduced the time we stay dead after a close combat by half.
• CPU as fewer chances to recover after bouncing on the ground. This needs to be tested.

CPU instantly recovers if I hit them while they are flying, taking away a lot of combo potential.

I don't understand the problem here. By flying, you mean falling?

Actually it's not that the cpu recovers when touching the ground, what I meant is that when I do a dash combo, if I teleport-hit my enemy while we are near the ground, they won't get stuck to the ground but instead they'll bounce off of it and be able to recover. My bad.

And yeah, I mean when they are falling/bouncing through the map.

Since your opponent is near the ground, I believe he is bouncing on it before you manage to hit him with the teleportation. So everything is normal here. Could you make a video of that, in case I'm wrong?

Sure.

They stay stuck in the ground if I do the teleport Dash Attack at the top of the map, otherwise this happens.

Thanks for the videos, Juanes — that's extremely helpful.

So, first one: you missed the last punch and the enemy recovered on the ground.

Same for the second one, you couldn’t teleport above the enemy because of the top of the screen, so you missed.

The next two are the same as the first one.

That's the magic of events that aren’t scripted, unlike what you see in other Dragon Ball games. And honestly, I really prefer the randomness of these over seeing the exact same animation every time.

What I can do, however, is slow down the enemy at the moment you teleport to increase the chances of hitting.
Also, the computer shouldn’t be able to recover like that all the time... I’m going to make some other changes there.

So I made some new tweaks: instead of teleporting above the opponent, it now teleports closer to the enemy, practically on them. This way, the chances of missing the hit are very low.

I also changed how the chances for the computer to recover after its first bounce on the ground are calculated. Again.

I hope this is it. Please try again.

Now it would be helpful if users with access to the beta, aside from Juanes, could try doing combos and tell me if 3 hits feel fair, or if it should be more.

It's extremely hard for me to land the combo, even with faster characters. It's also realllly slow for me so i have to make the game smaller for me to play it properly. Maybe i'm just not as skilled at this game anymore 😂
But most of the time i can't get that 3rd hit on the opponent.

So, I was playing on God mode and it is hard to land a combo on an opponent, it's doable though it started being easier the more I kept playing it.

I feel like it works great, now you hit the 3rd Dash Attack pretty much always, while still having the randomness spice that distinguishes the game.

I also noticed the AI now lands more combos as well, so maybe there should be an increase in the chances that the AI uses more Ki Waves and Ki Blasts after completing a combo, since most of the time it tries to hit you while you are in the dead state.

Now that the game is leaning towards this new combat system, and seeing that many players still don't know very well how to do them, I'm going to make a little tutorial showing the 3 basic rules of how to do combos, so that everyone can contribute with their feedback.

1) There are different kinds of Dash Attacks, straight Dash Attacks and diagonal Dash Attacks, this is important because depending on the Dash Attack you use, your opponent will react differently. The Dash Attack we care about right now is the downward diagonal Dash Attack (left/right and down twice), this one being the one that sends your opponent hovering more aggressively and with more speed, making them bounce more and spend more time in the air, giving you more time to connect more Dash Attacks. So the ideal way to start a combo is to use a diagonal Dash Attack.

2) We should always start the combo at the bottom of the map, preferably on the ground, because if we start it at the top, the opponent will bounce directly to the ground, being able to recover immediately, while if we hit them from the ground, it is certain that they will bounce to the top walls of the map a few times, once again, giving us space and time to hit them again before they hit the ground.

3) There is no character in the game that can move as fast as one that is bouncing around the map, so once we have connected the first Dash Attack on the ground, we should not chase our opponent, instead, we should go to the place where we know our opponent will go, in this way ensuring to hit them again. Usually, and because of the speed with which we send our opponent flying, it is enough to just move upwards and we will be in front of our opponent, and since Melee and Dash Attacks automatically move towards our opponents, just by doing them we will have already hit them.

Once your opponent is bouncing off the walls, you can combine and use different attacks, Ki Blasts, Melee or Dash Attacks, while trying to keep them away of the ground, but that's another topic.

Added to all this, the third Dash Attack can be performed from anywhere and at any time before the opponent touches the ground, and it will directly teleport us aside of our opponent and hit them, so once you do the previous steps, now you only have to do a Dash Attack after hitting the opponent the second time to complete the combo, you really only have to connect two Dash Attacks to do it.

Now that you know the basics, you can practice doing something like this to get used to it:

I hope this is useful and helps everyone enjoy this amazing new game mechanic.

OMG THAT IS SO COOL 😃
You could totally turn that into a proper tutorial video by combining parts of those four, adding titles for each section, and using a robot voiceover 🤩

there should be an increase in the chances that the AI uses more Ki Waves and Ki Blasts after completing a combo, since most of the time it tries to hit you while you are in the dead state

Oh yeah, I was planning to do that... Then I got caught up working on the new credits. I’m adding it to my urgent list, because it’s definitely something we need.

Thanks for the feedback everyone ❤️

I’ve added a high chance for the AI to fire a ki attack if it lands a 3-hit combo and has more than 50 ki.

This doesn’t solve the case where your fighter is “dead” and the AI keeps trying to dash into them. That’s a whole new problem, but I’m on it.

Hello! Sorry I've been inactive for a while!
But I finally go to test the game out and I really like the new changes for the combat system. I'm still learning and trying to get them down completely but they make the game stand out from the last version.
(Juanes HRT, your tutorials are coming in handy. Maybe they could be added to the combat tutorial in the game?)

It may just be the way I've been playing, but I've had a hard time trying to keep my opponent in the air, or even launching them a great amount to begin the combo. Most matches result in back to back melee clashes on any difficulty.

As for the AI, they have managed to perform the knockback/teleport combos very well, but I believe they are programmed for combat attacks over Ki Attacks. Some matches, my opponent won't even charge ki above one bar, or even transform.

After lots of testing with the combos, here's my opinion:

Right now, when a character is knocked down from a 3-hit combo and can't move, the other character can follow-up with an energy attack for additional damage. This works well because normal punches don't do a lot of damage. Doing combos is an incentive to pursue a relatively low-damage style of combat, so you can eventually knock the enemy down and easily do high-damage moves.

However, energy blasts and special attacks are very high-damage already. They do tons of damage. Getting hit with one of them can take off an entire health bar or more. Right now, if you're hit by a strong energy blast, you're also knocked down and are stunned for a while. But these attacks are so strong that being able to follow them up with another strong attack is very broken.

I've had situations where I've done a combo, then as my opponent was laying on the ground, I blasted them. This blast made them continue laying on the ground, where I blasted them again, and it kept repeating until I emptied my entire Ki bar and nearly killed them, all from doing one combo. I've knocked somebody down with a Dragon Fist that did tons of damage, and it stunned them for so long that I could recharge all my Ki and then blast them before they could move, doing tons more damage. I've been hit by a full-powered Spirit Bomb, which already took half of my HP away, but it stunned me long enough for them to charge up and fire a second full-powered Spirit Bomb, killing me instantly.

I think that, if you're already stunned and immobile on the ground, being hit with an energy blast should stop you from being stunned after, so you don't get hit with multiple of of them in a row. And if you're knocked to the ground by an energy blast or special attack, it shouldn't stun you for very long. I think being stunned should be saved for combos.

Yeah I agree, it should work like if you're in the dead state, once you get hit by a charged Ki Wave or a special attack you regain control immediately.

Me encantó esta nueva mecánica.🤩
Realmente hace que las peleas sean más dinámicas y divertidas con este nuevo sistema de combos.

Hasta donde llegue a probar, parece estar todo en órden y sin ningún Bug claro, pero en caso de que encuentre algo, editare este mensaje.😉