I see. I understand your reasoning to switch the SP system to hardcoded values. Thank you for explaining it, it makes sense now. However, in regards to my other complaint, I think maybe I wasn't explaining myself well enough. Sorry if this is also a long comment.

• "Now, things feel unequal. I just tested, and 4 punches, 2 dashes, or one nearly-fully-charged KI bullet all deal almost the exact same amount of damage, but they give increasingly more SP."

I'll re-explain what I mean by this. Basically, for the purposes of this discussion, take the character stats completely out of the equation. They're completely irrelevant. When I tested this, I used the same characters every single time, with the exact same stats.

Anyway. What I was trying to explain was, when I punched a character 4 times, it did X amount of damage, and gave me Y amount of SP in exchange for that damage. When I dashed-attacked twice, it also did X amount of damage, however, it filled up the SP gauge more, like Y*1.2 or something. And when I launched some KI bullets and ended up dealing X damage with them, it filled up the SP gauge even more, like Y*1.5 or something. And when I fired an energy beam charged with one full bar of KI, it did a lot of damage, like X*2, but returned a relatively small amount of SP, like maybe Y*1.1 or something. In short, the various methods of attack give different amounts of SP relative to the amount of damage they do.

At least in my perspective, when playing a game, there's subconscious expectations that form. I attack the opponent and do a certain amount of damage, and watch the SP gauge fill up at a certain speed. Then I attack with a different method and do damage, only to find that the SP gauge filled faster or slower than I anticipated, based off of my previous experience. This is what I mean by "intuitive". In a fast-paced fighting game, there's just certain elements that feel like they should stay consistent.

Basically, I think that the various rates should be balanced so that regardless of the WAY you deal damage, the amount of SP that gets returned is always the same relative to the total damage done.

For example, if a dash does twice as much damage as a punch, and a punch fills the SP gauge by 4, then the Dash should fill the gauge by 8 instead of 10. Or maybe the punch should fill the gauge by 5 instead of 4. Either way, the end result is that doing the same amount of damage against an opponent ends up with the same amount of SP being gained, regardless of the way you dealt it. It just feels super weird currently, that you gain like, twice as much SP gain from a KI bullet with 99 charge, than a KI beam with 100 charge, despite the KI beam doing way more damage.

EDIT: Adding a screenshot just to make my example clear. The first image is damage done with punches, the second image is damage done with KI bullets. It's the same amount of damage, but the KI bullets fill up the SP gauge way faster. This is what feels unintuitive to me. I think the SP gauge should be consistent between all forms of damage.

Sorry if this whole explanation was very long-winded, I tend to type and explain myself more than necessary, lol.

I saw the banner asking for feedback. To be honest, I was avoiding giving feedback because I thought my opinion would upset or annoy you.

The way things are currently, are... good. I think the SP fills up at a good rate. When it was first redone, it filled up far too slow, to the point where most 1v1's never got to use any special attacks even when the characters had the maximum amount of HP. Now, it's a lot faster, but not too fast. I like that the amount of KI used in an attack dynamically affects the amount of SP gained, since when it was first redone, a minimally-charged KI bullet gave the same SP as a highly-charged KI bullet. I don't think special attacks should fill the SP gauge, that just doesn't make sense to me since those attacks ARE the SP gauge being spent. Melee clashes and beam clashes still give the minimum amount of SP, that needs to be adjusted since they generally result in much more damage than a single hit.

So currently, things are fine, and the clash mechanics just need to be adjusted for the new SP system.

However, I still honestly think the new system is way less intuitive than the old system.

Before the SP gauge was changed, SP filled up dynamically based on how much damage was done. It made sense just by looking at it, you saw how much every different type of melee or ranged attack depleted the opponents HP bar, and you got some consistent return of SP as a result. Now, things feel unequal. I just tested, and 4 punches, 2 dashes, or one nearly-fully-charged KI bullet all deal almost the exact same amount of damage, but they give increasingly more SP. Meanwhile, a single-bar KI beam does way more damage than all of those, but gives less SP than a weaker KI bullet. This could be argued to add more strategy to the game, and I understand that hard-coding the values is easier than doing calculations. But in my opinion, the current system feels inconsistent during fights, and less inherently easy to understand.

Plus, I liked the old mechanic of filling up the SP gauge slightly by taking damage. It created a dynamic where if one player was winning easily, then the other player still has almost no change to use a special attack since their SP is filling so slow, like the new system. But, if the fight is more even with both players doing damage, then the SP gauge fills up quicker on both sides, since there's two different sources filling it. This was helpful to let more special attacks happen on fights with lower-HP characters. With the new system, I almost never see a special attack unless the fighters both had 3 HP bars at least. I wanted to try getting a cinematic finish on the "Trunks VS Mecha Frieza" story mode fight (a beam VS Supernova clash), and because they only had 2 HP bars each, I had to stand there and let Frieza beat me up to near-death just to get him to launch a Supernova.

This may or may not be related to the other recent issue with incorrect frames and poses. Whenever you are knocked down into the dead position, if you hold the block button while getting back up, you will start charging KI with the damage pose instead of the blocking pose.

Right, maybe I wasn't clear, lol. I meant it as in, REDUCE the amount that the special gauge is filled by depending on if they have higher stats. I assumed you were taking the amount of damage done as the value to fill the gauge, so I was suggesting that you would've taken that value and made it smaller by whatever amount the higher stats multiply it by.

So with your example, Omega Shenron and Saibaman would both gain 10 SP from 10 punches. If Omega Shenron fired a beam charged with 2 ki bars, he would do a lot of damage, so he'd gain a ton of SP, not just a single point like a punch. Then if the Saibaman fired a beam charged with 3 ki bars, he would gain more SP, even if he did less damage because he has lower stats.

So like, the SP gauge should still fill dynamically based on how strong the attack is, so a charged beam should fill the SP gauge way more than a single bullet or punch. But the calculations should assume that both fighters have the exact same stats, so they gain SP at the same rate regardless of how much extra damage they're doing because of their higher stats.

I've tested this, and personally, I'm not a fan.

The issue with everything filling the exact same amount of the gauge is that it really encourages otherwise useless strategies, and discourages core mechanics. Once your opponent goes down, why ever both firing a fully-charged energy beam? Instead, just spam a bunch of tiny energy bullets that do barely any damage, and it'll build up your special meter extremely quickly, letting you launch an attack afterwards.

If you want all of the characters to gain special meter at the same rate, but still be based off of how much damage you do, you could probably do some calculations using their actual stats. Like, find out how much damage one character does relative to their opponent, and apply that to the value of the special meter being gained. Or, each time damage is dealt, have a separate background calculation that applies damage as if both fighters had the exact same stats, and use the output of that to fill the special meter.

I think it would function best the way it used to, with more damaging attacks filling up the special meter more (more charged energy beam = more special meter gained), but still fill at the same rate for characters with 10 strength/speed/spirit or 1 strength/speed/spirit.

I launched a KI blast when Caulifla was in the middle of transforming. It hit her during her transformation, so as soon as the cutscene ended, she died. When Broly was automatically swapped in next, he had Caulifla's portrait. I'm not exactly sure if this even needs to be fixed, given how rare and situational it probably is.

Since I saw "Beta is closed and ready for the release." in the development page, I did some last-minute bug-testing, and noticed some issues with the "rocket" ability.

For the normal ability that replaces energy blasts, the one used by Major Metallitron, there's no sound effect for firing the rockets. It just copies whatever was the last sound effect played. For the special attack that Staff Officer Black has, the rocket doesn't actually seem to do any damage upon hitting the opponent. I've also noticed that they don't properly face the opponent when being used, and isn't deleted after exploding.

They weren't stunned, they were just in their default pose when I hit them. I'm not sure why they attacked, it could just be because the AI was still trying to fight me like normal as they clipped through the terrain.

It was not a dash. I jumped up above them, then used a normal "downward" attack as I fell.

I managed to reacreate the bug of players falling through the terrain. I'm not exactly sure what causes it, only that it happens sometimes when attacking a character while falling straight down on them, with no left or right momentum for either character.

Sorry if this isn't too helpful. Is there anything specific I should be testing for when trying to recreate it?

This is something I've noticed for a while now, but thought it had to be brought up with the changes being made to the new combat system, I've noticed it a lot while testing the new update. There's something weird going on with the computer fighters, they don't seem to play by the same rules as the player does.

First, is this: occasionally, seemingly at random, the AI will automatically get a hit of damage in when a melee clash begins. If this happens, not only with the player be hurt, but they will also proceed to fall after the clash, even if they won it.

As for why it happens, I have no clue, but I suspect it has something to do with how the AI is able to react instantly in order to hit the player, and dash instantly. With the player, to dash, you have to double-tap the button. So no matter how good of reaction time you have, there will always be some sort of lag in how fast you can dash attack, since the button has to be pressed, let go, and pressed again. The AI is able to do it instantly, however. I hope this isn't just me being bad at the game, but it does seem like they work on fundamentally different rules.

As an example. When the player attacks normally, they move slightly. If they hit the opponent like this, they don't deal any knockback. if the player dashes, effects play: a little circle effect plays, and dash lines cover the player. If they hit the opponent like this, they deal knockback damage.

However, the AI can do something different. When the AI attacks, they act as if they're attacking normally, doing an instant move towards the player, and they do not have the dash lines. However, the circle effect plays, and when they hit the player, they still do knockback. It's something in-between a normal attack and a dash attack, that combines the best of both types of attacks. It's effectively a dash attack, but it happens instantly like a normal attack, and it feels very unfair to fight against.

I've been trying to test the new combo system, but the fact that the AI does knockback every single time it hits, unlike the player, is making the system feel weirdly unbalanced.

I'll test other stuff like the recovery system soon when I have time, but I just want to say that I tested the newly implemented attack hit detection. It worked incredibly well, the entire thing functioned perfectly. Especially for characters who were given animations that properly corresponded with the attack directions. When the "backwards" attack animation actually attacks behind you, it can perfectly intercept an opponent sneaking up on you.

The best part was that, in almost all the cases, the attack was detected a few frames after the button is pressed, making all the hits feel much more snappy and immediate.

The biggest issue with the attacks are that lots of animations have the first half of the frames dedicated to extending, and the second half the frames dedicated to retracting, with only a few frames in the middle where the punch/kick/etc is fully outstretched. That's where the attack should be registered. Right now, they're registered at the very end, so if the animation is complex enough to return the fighter so their idle pose after they attack, then the attack is basically useless, since the hitbox of the attack doesn't end up extending out at all by the time it's registered (not to mention it takes ages for the attack to be registered).

Here's every idea that comes to mind:

One way it could work is just to have the attack be registered at the very start of the animation, rather than the end. That's how Devolution works, where the attack is registered as soon as the button is pressed. But that has the same issue as currently, just in reverse; the attack would still be useless if its animation starts from the idle pose and extends out.

Maybe have it be registered a few frames after the attack starts? So it would happen when most attacking animations are at their midpoint?

If you want to make things more complicated and have it be a case-by-case basis, either automatically or manually, one of these two options could work:

• Automatic: Check what frame of the attack animation has any non-transparent pixels furthest from the center/closest to the edge of the hitbox, and register the attack when that frame plays (if there's multiple, register the attack when it happens the first time). That way, the attack registers when (most likely) the fighter has a fully extended punch/kick/etc out.
• Manual: This would completely ruin old BASTON fighters and cause a rework of the fighter creator. But, each punch animation on a fighter could allow the creator to pick what frame of the animation the punch is registered on? It would default to the last frame, but they could change it somehow for each attack direction?

• After being hit, my character stays in their damaged animation and is pushed around by the attacker running into them (while the blood particles stay in place). The buttons don't really work, I have to spam the attack button and arrow keys to eventually get control of my character again.
• The characters don't actually seem to get knocked down into their death pose until they lose ALL of their health. I think that getting significantly hurt should make you fall down into the death pose and make it so you can't be interacted with for a moment until you get back up? That way it gives you some time to recover before things start happening again, kind of like invincibility frames. And it utilizes the stun/recover animation from the old characters.

Txori, I saw the site banner asking for feedback.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to complain or give you more work. But I'm just unsure WHAT feedback needs to be given. I've tried to scroll through the many scattered pages of BASTON development, trying to figure out what's being tested, what's already decided, what's undecided, and what needs to be figured out, but I can't understand it. It's too confusing and vague for me to understand.

If you compile some list of what exactly needs testing, and what questions you want answers to, I will test it all extensively and give you in-depth opinions on it.

For now, I just attempted to test the newest version, but I'm not sure what kind of feedback you're looking for. Here are the opinions that came to mine when testing it:
-When walking into a small gap on the worms map, the character bugs out and the camera jitters against the terrain as it tries and fails to fit through the gap.
-The camera shoots up to follow your character each time you jump. It gets a bit nauseating, maybe the camera needs to be adjusted somehow in its vertical movement?
-After being hit, my character stays in their damaged animation and is pushed around by the attacker running into them (while the blood particles stay in place). The buttons don't really work, I have to spam the attack button and arrow keys to eventually get control of my character again.
-The characters don't actually seem to get knocked down into their death pose until they lose ALL of their health. I think that getting significantly hurt should make you fall down into the death pose and make it so you can't be interacted with for a moment until you get back up? That way it gives you some time to recover before things start happening again, kind of like invincibility frames. And it utilizes the stun/recover animation from the old characters.

I think the automatic method works better, just because the player can't control everything they need to.

Manual method might be best with a joystick, but it doesn't work with arrow keys. The enemies aren't just approaching from the 4 cardinal directions, they can approach from any angle. If an enemy is approaching from a 45 degree angle, making the player choose a split-second decision whether an up-attack or a side-attack is more fitting isn't really fair or fun. Since the arrow keys can't account for every possible direction to attack, I think the engine should handle stuff on its own, and make adjustments as needed.

This issue is going to appear again once projectiles are added in. Even moreso than with close-range attacks, a player can't choose exactly what angle to fire a projectile using arrow keys, when the enemies are going to be approaching from diagonal directions. Nobody would ever land their attacks. In fact, I bet it'll be more likely for the AI to accidentally dodge into an attack and get hit, then get hit because the opponent aimed at them. I think, just like with the old BASTON and with Devolution, the engine should auto-aim unless the enemy gets behind you when you're charging up.

Personally, as a side-note, I do still think some sort of lock-on button to choose which enemy to face and focus on could be useful. Maybe pressing it could focus you on the closest character to you, and pressing it again could sequentially select further out for every character currently visible on screen? And if the targeted character went off-screen, it would give you a small arrow at the edge of your screen to let you know what direction your opponent is in? And maybe if you got attacked by some other character it could automatically shift to them instead? IDK, I'm just suggesting stuff.

Alright, I've done some testing, here's my feedback regarding the map tile sizes.

The smaller sizes, like size 1x1 or 2x2, definitely don't work. Each time you approach a 1-tile-tall ledge and automatically walk up it, the camera jerks around a bit, and the character loses all of their momentum. This was happening every fraction of a second while trying to run around in a size 1 map. The only reason to have smaller tile sizes is to make more detailed terrain, so this would be constantly happening on any sort of height-varied ground.

I think 8x8 tiles works the best. Playing with a standard-sized character, 8x8 allows characters to fall down 2-tile-wide holes, and run over 1-tile-wide holes, but still jump up 1-tile-wide holes from above, so they don't get trapped anywhere. It also allows them to fit in 2-tile-tall tunnels easily. The characters just seem the most well-built for this size of ground.

Besides, a smaller tile size will make it more difficult it will be for the average person to draw their own tiles and maps. The smaller the tiles are, the more tiles you have to draw in order to have an actually detailed-looking terrain. Since BASTON is all about accessible character creation, I think 8x8, the easiest to manage, is the best option.

When colliding with other players, it behaves in ways that... either don't seem correct, or don't seem like good design. You just keep jumping around and bouncing on them. Maybe they should only have horizontal collision, so you can't walk into each-other. But if you land on somebody from above, both characters would just push each-other out of the way, and if walls were stopping them from moving out of the way, they'd just overlap each-other like the old BASTON?

Also, maybe it's an option and I'm just missing it, but there's no windowed mode anymore, is there? It's forced into fullscreen whenever I play it. This makes it kind of difficult to give feedback, as I can't have the game open to test things at the same time as I'm typing something on this site.

Yet another Demon Slayer character, this time it's Gyutaro. I'm reasonably proud with how this one turned out, but I still do have stuff to add to it. I'm going to make Daki as complimentary character, but she (like a lot of these Demon Slayer characters so far, it seems) has a bunch of tentacles that she fights with. So it'll take a while to sprite her. When I do, I also plan on making a second form for Gyutaro, when he shares his eye with her. Since he doesn't look very different in that form, I'll need to make a ton of completely new poses to differentiate him.

Here's the character file:
https://www.txori.com/forum/doc/2/17414 … cairns.zip

Since you asked for feedback, here are some things I've noticed.

First of all, movement. I think this has the most issues in the current build. You added momentum to the running, so that you now build up to max speed. However, I've found that this makes platforming incredibly difficult. I don't think building up to max speed is an issue, but maybe the start of the build-up should already have some speed behind it, or build up quicker?

Secondly, the jump height, in my opinion, is far too high. A single jump is able to completely clear any obstacle not built on a massive scale. This can be easily seen in the "Mario 1-1" map from slightly older versions. It feels like it makes vertical mobility obsolete, as anything can be reached super easily. Double jumps just become excessive at that point. But because of the super high jumps, certain places just can't be reached now. Again in the "Mario 1-1" map, there's a horizontal underground tunnel that's raised one block up off of the ground to enter it. Even jumping the smallest amount possible, it's too high to fit in that tunnel. I've also noticed even characters without the ability to jump are still able to do so. I assume that's just for testing purposes currently, but I've already mentioned that I think the option to not let a character jump should be available.

About the HUD that's been added, there's a possible maximum of 32 fighters in a level. in "player VS AI" battles, I assume that you will still be able to see the opponents portraits and health, right? Displaying all members of the opponents team would obviously clutter up the screen. As such, I think some sort of "lock on" feature might be necessary, to focus on one opponent at a time (alongside the other benefits I've listed before, like backwards movement sprites and projectile aiming).

Finally, about the 32-fighter limit: in the old BASTON, you had the line of miniature characters waiting on either side of the arena, so you knew how many characters your team, and the opponents team, had. Now, though, there isn't any way to know that except for before you start the fight. And there's no way to switch between fighters on your team, like you could with the old BASTON. My suggestion is to re-use those "miniature characters" standing sprites, and maybe line them up like icons underneath the HP bar? Something like this?

If this isn't the kind of feedback you were looking for, I apologize.

I love this style! It kind of reminds me of the character designs from "Dragon Ball Z: Gekitō Tenkaichi Budōkai"! It would be awesome to see more characters in this style.